Jon Bernthal Explains Why SPIDER-MAN: BRAND NEW DAY's Punisher Sees Himself as a "Cautionary Tale"

The paths of Jon Bernthaland Tom Hollandhave been connected for years, long before they finally shared the screen in Marvel's Spider-Man: Brand New Day.

Fans have known the story about the two actors helping each other tape their Marvel auditions back in 2015, but now, after a decade of playing the Punisher and Spider-Man, they finally get to bring that history into the MCU together.

Their chemistry has become one of the movie's biggest highlights, with Frank Castle stepping into an unexpected role as Peter Parker's confidant. According to Bernthal, that relationship works because it mirrors the one he and Holland have built in real life.

Speaking with Variety, Bernthal reflected on finally working alongside Holland in Brand New Day, as well as their reunion in Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey.

"It's great to be able to do two in a row with my friend Tom," Bernthal said. "It's just so beautiful to come full circle."

It's been an incredibly busy stretch for Bernthal. Alongside his return as Frank Castle, he recently appeared in Netflix's His and Hers with Tessa Thompson, co-wrote and starred in Disney+'s The Punisher: One Last Kill, wrapped another season of FX's The Bear, and spent time on Broadway starring in Dog Day Afternoon.

When Bernthal's casting in Brand New Day was first announced, many assumed Mark Ruffalo's Bruce Banner would once again become Peter Parker's primary mentor. Instead, Marvel leaned into something far more interesting by pairing Peter with Frank Castle.

Director Destin Daniel Cretton says the decision paid off thanks to the natural friendship between the actors.

"Jon and Tom have a rapport that would be very difficult to replicate in any scenario, and when the two of them are on screen, I could watch them banter for half an hour. I would just let them go off script, and so many wonderful moments came out of that that ended up in the final cut."

One of the biggest questions heading into the film was how Marvel would fit the notoriously violent Punisher into Spider-Man's more family-friendly world without losing what fans love about the character.

Bernthal admits that concern was front and center throughout production. "I was very aware of that and very protective of Frank, and I really want to deliver for the fans and the people that he means so much to. And look, that was really the question. That was really the issue. How tonally would he fit into this world?"

He went on to explain that preserving Frank Castle's identity was non-negotiable. "I was very clear with Destin: we have to believe that he would be able to walk off the set of One Last Kill, and be that same guy walking onto the set of Brand New Day, while also honoring that tonally it's a much different project. I deeply appreciated that Amy Pascal, Destin and Tom Rothman all wanted the exact same thing."

"They all really respected and wanted his version of Frank that I've been delivering over the years. A lot of times in this business, when there's an issue, or a little bit of a conflict or a problem, something you're trying to figure out, sometimes the answer is to sort of skirt around it, or to avoid it, or to gloss over it, rather than to dive into it and to really explore it. I feel like we really hit it head on."

"My dear friend Colton Hill, who's a Marine and a Green Beret, who I trained with for years, was on set with me as the Punisher. He was behind the camera every time I was there, and he was so helpful. I was so grateful not only that Destin welcomed that, but he was hungry for it, and they became very good friends.

“It's a real testament to the kind of filmmaker Destin is that he really wanted to accomplish both of those things — preserving Frank and blending him into the tone of this film."

One of the more comedic moments in the movie comes when Peter literally webs Frank's mouth shut to stop him from dropping another F-bomb. Bernthal revealed scenes like that often grew out of improvisation rather than sticking rigidly to the script.

"We really leaned a lot on improvisation and finding things on the day. What was great about this project was that you have all kinds of the bells and whistles — I mean, this is no mystery; this is a huge franchise and the level of artistry and talent is immense and unparalleled — but at the end of the day there's a real vigor and vitality in going after the truth of the scene on the day.

“It was not a strange thing on that set for them to stop things and have the actors and Destin explore and rewrite and find things and get closer to the kernel of the scene, or to explore through improvisation.

“I was really grateful for that, and I was very pleasantly surprised by it. This is a new lens in which we see Frank, but it's not a different character. It's going to preserve what people love about him most."

What makes Frank's role in Brand New Day especially compelling is that he doesn't encourage Peter to embrace his darker instincts. Quite the opposite. Bernthal says Frank recognizes Peter is starting to walk a dangerous path, one he knows all too well.

"Tom and I have known each other for a really long time. We have this natural big brother-little brother dynamic. It's important to always note that Frank is a guy who's spiraling and reeling from trauma.

“He's not looking for any light at the end of the tunnel. He's not looking to get out of the darkness. He's looking to dive right into it, and he's also quite aware that this is no way to live."

"I'm always interested in characters who build walls around their heart, who reject the outside world. Reject the light. Reject friendship, companionship, love.

“What I love about those kinds of characters is that's actually an impossible task for a human being. No matter what wall you build around your heart, there's got to be little holes for the light to shine through. And Tom's performance as Spider-Man really is that light."

"It's very clear to Frank the steps that you know Spider-Man is headed [down]; he's trying to emulate this kind of darkness and this lone wolf mentality.

“Frank looks at that clearly as what it is: that's absolutely no place to live. He doesn't want to go to the places that [Frank has] gone, and he doesn't want this guy to go feel the things that he feels. This is not something ever to emulate. He sees himself as a cautionary tale."

That's an interesting direction for Frank Castle. Rather than becoming another superhero mentor, he's the living example of what Peter Parker could become if grief, anger, and isolation completely take over.

It's a dynamic we haven't really seen explored in a Spider-Man movie before, and it gives the Punisher a meaningful place in Peter's story without softening who Frank is.

As for what's next, Bernthal says he genuinely has no idea where Marvel plans to take Frank Castle after Brand New Day, but he's more than ready to keep wearing the skull.

"The great thing about what we get to do is you never know what's going to come next, and that's something that I come to really embrace and love and celebrate. I don't know what the next story is with Frank, but I know it's out there. I think there's a little bit of Frank Castle in all of us.

“It's been such a gift to be able to explore the darkness that is Frank and his life and his struggle and his mission. I'm really eager and excited to keep going with Frank and to see what's next. But honestly, I don't know what that is, and I'm still excited to find out."

Seeing Frank Castle step into Peter Parker's world could've easily felt like an awkward crossover, but it sounds like Marvel found the right angle by making the Punisher a warning instead of another superhero mentor. 

That big brother-little brother chemistry between Bernthal and Holland gives the relationship an authenticity that's hard to fake, and it adds an emotional layer to Spider-Man: Brand New Day that longtime fans of both characters can appreciate.

Whether Frank's next chapter takes him back into darker, R-rated territory or keeps him crossing paths with the MCU's biggest heroes, we know Bernthal isn't done with the Punisher yet, and after seeing what he brings to Peter Parker's story, hopefully this won't be the last time these two share the screen.