Peadar Tóibín: Independent Ireland is a 'different beast' - but closer ties with Aontú possible

PEADAR TÓIBÍN HAS “no regrets” about jumping ship from Sinn Féin. 

Sitting in his sun-drenched Aontú office that overlooks Kildare Street a day before the Dáil rises for the summer, the party leader says there are “good people in Sinn Féin”, but he believes the leadership has been terrible. 

In 2018, Tóibín resigned from Sinn Féin after he was suspended from the party for six months because he voted against the abortion legislation in the Dáil. 

In a statement at the time, he said he had taken the decision “with a heavy heart”. 

So, no regrets about leaving? 

“No regrets,” replies Tóibín.

“I feel very sorry for Sinn Féin. I have to say, I do,” he told The Journal, stating that the party doesn’t appear to be able to get anything right at the moment. 

“I just don’t think Sinn Féin know who they are, and also I think they’re fearful of standing up for what they believe in.

“There was a time, even if it was highly unpopular, they would still stand up for things that they believed in, and that’s not there.

“They’re so confused in terms of the direction that they’re going in,” he said.

Sinn Féin party membership is not being listened to, in his view. “As long as they keep ignoring their membership, they’re going to be without a compass or direction,” the Meath West TD said.

“I just think it’s shocking. The fall of Sinn Féin over the last while, it is very sad to see”. 

“They were a party of massive opportunity, and that opportunity seems to be fizzling away,” he said. 

While he might believe his old political home is in crisis, Tóibín believes his own party, which he set up after he left Sinn Féin, is primed for growth. 

In the last general election, Aontú won two seats – his own in Meath West and first-time TD Paul Lawless’ in Mayo, securing 3.9% of first preference votes nationally. 

The party leader said he is targeting 12 Dáil seats next time around. 

“So we’re building,” he said.  

Where is Aontú on the political spectrum in Irish politics?

Asked where Aontú is on the political spectrum, Tóibín said it is “broadly a centrist political party”.

“We would probably have slightly left of centre views on some economic issues, and probably a little bit right of centre on some social issues. But broadly, a centrist political party,” he said.

Others on the left might disagree with that assessment, but Tóibín said for too long he believes his party has been pigeonholed for being a ‘one issue’ party only known for its position on abortion. However, he believes his party has a “compassionate anchor” to deal with difficult issues.

“Like, none of those social issues or even culture war issues are abstract. They’re all human beings,” he said. 

A merger with Independent Ireland?

With Tóibín confident about where his party is positioned in Irish politics, could he ever see a day when there might be a merger between Aontú and the likes of Independent Ireland? 

“I don’t know,” he said, stating that he does believe the two groups should work together more closely.

“One of the things that I don’t think is probably recognised in the Irish political system is Independent Ireland and Aontú probably take up about 14% of the vote. That didn’t exist five years ago. It is by far the biggest change in the political system in the last five years, by far,” he said.

Tóibín believes the left parties’ transfer strategy of ‘vote left, transfer left’ in the elections has been successful and is something his party and Independent Ireland should learn from.

However, he still thinks the two political parties are different.

“Independent Ireland is a different beast to ourselves,” said Tóibín.

Independent Ireland operate as independents, voting against each other regularly, said the Aontú leader.

“I think we sometimes take a stronger, more backbone approach to things,” he remarked. 

“I think they’ll be wild at times in terms of the positions that they take, and yet at other times they may not necessarily have the backbone to make decisions,” he said, citing the referendum about care in the home and also the back and forth in Independent Ireland about whether to sign Maria Steen’s nomination papers so she could run as a presidential candidate. 

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Maria Steen and Aontú

Could Steen one day be an election candidate for his own party? Tóibín said:

I think we’re at a tipping point where you’re going to see significantly more high-profile individuals coming on board.

“I think Maria Steen is a highly intelligent, highly articulate, very, very independently-minded individual. And I think she has had a big impact. To whether someday she’ll be a member of ourselves or not, I don’t know. But I do think she’s got a role to play in politics,” said the Meath West TD. 

While the Aontú leader says no one knows what Sinn Féin stands for, one issue his party has been clear and vocal on is where they stand on migration. 

The Aontú leader has previously rejected claims he has been pandering to the far-right when it comes to immigration, stating at his party’s policy launch on the subject that it is “absolute nonsense” to suggest his stance on the issue is a far-right ”dog-whistle”.

Migration policies 

Tóibín’s party pledges to cut legal immigration and seek swifter deportation for rejected asylum numbers. 

He has also argued for Ireland to opt out of the EU migration pact, stating that it is of significant threat to the country. 

The European Parliament approved the new rules in June. Among the most controversial elements is the creation of return hubs outside the EU, where unsuccessful asylum applicants could be transferred before being returned to their country of origin.

Destinations reportedly under consideration to host the return hubs include Rwanda, Uganda, Uzbekistan, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Ethiopia, Mauritania and Kazakhstan.

There are differing views on the subject, even from government parties, so is Aontú in favour of return hubs? 

“We’re open to the possibility of a return hub being placed into a country that has proper western humanitarian standards,” he said. 

He said it was important to say that his party believe the “colour of a person’s skin is of no more significance than the colour of their eyes. We believe that if your house was on fire, I would have a moral responsibility to try to put you up for a while until you got back on your feet. And where people are actually fleeing war and violence, we want to help them”.

However, he said he is no doubt that the immigration system that was put in place under the Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and Greens was “incredibly loose”. 

He said he still has questions about work and student visas, stating that he believes that area needs to be “tightened up”, but added we do “need good people to come into our country to keep the lights on in the hospitals and the nursing homes, and we value all the efforts that those individuals carry out”. 

The government has highlighted student visas as an area it is focusing on, with new figures suggesting the government has rejected over 60% of applications for student visas so far this year.

On the issue of swifter deportations that Aontú would roll out, it was put to the party leader that such actions are costing this government a lot of money.

Deporting people out of the country via charter jet since February of last year has cost about €3 million to the state.

So, is Aontú happy to beef up that spending to speed up the process? 

Tóibín said the cost of deporting somebody out of the country “is way too expensive, and he believes it could be done far cheaper.

“Everything this government does, they do it at Gucci level, from the bike sheds to the National Children’s Hospital. This government does not mind the pennies in terms of the taxpayer. We believe it can be cheaper, but even at the government cost, the net saving to the state is real,” he said, adding that over €1 billion is being spent on asylum accommodation costs last year. 

In his view, the left parties and government parties, while not purposefully, he said, have created divisions by trying to shut down the debate on migration. 

Tóibín said they might have been doing so for the “best reasons in their own mind”, but it is his view that it made people angry and increased the pushback.

Democratic discourse is a pressure valve, he said.

“We said very clearly: if we don’t have an open, respectful discussion about this, if we push it underground, the ne’er-do-wells will use it for their own purposes, and that’s exactly what has happened,” said the Aontú leader. 

This week Tóibín has also been speaking out about Ukrainian supports, which are due to be cut back in August.

He told The Journal that the initial supports offered to Ukrainians were “majorly problematic”, in so far as it created differing rights between other asylum seekers entering the country, as well as citizens, when it came to things such as medical cards. 

Responding to the Ukrainian crisis, the government introduced a streamlined process whereby Ukrainian beneficiaries of temporary protection can automatically qualify for a medical card upon arrival in Ireland.

After a period of one year, Ukrainian refugees are subject to a standard means-test assessment to determine if they are eligible to retain a medical card or to qualify for a GP only card.

The HSE has issued more than 89,000 medical cards to Ukrainians since 2022. The HSE estimates that 54,500 medical cards are currently active.

Speaking about the medical cards issue, Tóibín said ,”All of this was probably designed and provided with the best, most generous will in the world, but the problem is, it created a two-and three-tier society,” he said.

Two or three years ago, calling for equality across the board on that particular issue  “would get the head taken off you by some on the left in the Dáil”, he said. 

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