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Karolina Wydra Unpacks That ‘Pluribus’ [SPOILER] and Rejects That Zosia is ‘Manipulating’ Carol: ‘They’re Coming From a Place of Love’

19 Dec 2025, 19:00 by Ethan Shanfeld · Variety

SPOILER ALERT: This story contains spoilers for Episode 8 of “Pluribus,” now streaming on Apple TV.

Carol’s 40 days and 40 nights of solitude have come to an end. And in this week’s episode of “Pluribus,” she makes the most out of her reunion with Zosia, her post-apocalypse concierge and last remaining friend.

The two, played by Rhea Seehorn and Karolina Wydra, face off in croquet, get a couple’s massage and gaze at the stars. Carol is enjoying herself, and it might feel like the before times, but she is still clear-eyed about who her companion is. (“It’s like playing cards with fucking Google,” she bemoans after losing to Zosia in a round of Spit.)

The Others — aka the 7 billion people morphed into one hive mind — make progress in winning Carol over. But they go a bit too far when they rebuild her favorite diner from scratch, flying an old waitress out from Florida for a nostalgic, coffee-pouring charade. That night, Carol begins to unravel, telling Zosia, “You are trying to distract me … It’s manipulative bullshit because you know I haven’t given up.” She adds, through tears, “Someone has to put the world right, even if it means you all leave me again.” And then, pouncing on a moment of vulnerability, Zosia leans in to kiss Carol, mirroring the initial outbreak of the mind virus and blurring the pre-established lines of consent between the Others and the Old-Schoolers, as the “Pluribus” producers call them. Carol kisses her back, hungrily, and Zosia wakes up the next morning topless in her bed.

Is the kiss — the most striking act of intimacy Carol has experienced since the death of her wife — manipulative? Or is it an expression of unconditional love? What are Zosia’s intentions, besides the Others’ stated goal of doing anything to make Carol happy?

Surely, many viewers will be having this debate, so Variety got into it with Wydra, who — with a big smile on her face — pushes back on the “M”-word and reaffirms Zosia’s unconditional love for Carol.

After leaving Carol for 40 days, why do the Others fulfill her request that they return?

Because we love her. The Others truly, genuinely love all of the Old-Schoolers unconditionally. We love them equally, the same. I think we come back because we want to be there for her. We want to make her happy, and we don’t want to see her suffer. And, also, we want her to experience what we’re experiencing.

That is the ultimate goal, to convert her.

That is the ultimate goal, because of the biological imperative. It is very important to us that she experiences what we experience. And we believe that once she experiences it, she’ll understand why we needed to share it. I find that fascinating, and we had conversations about this on set: “Well, are they manipulative?” It depends on whose perspective you’re looking at.

It’s like feeding a dog a pill wrapped in salami. You know the dog needs the medication, and you are manipulating the dog in order to help it.

Sure, yes. I mean… yes, I agree with you.

I can tell you don’t like the word “manipulative,” though.

Yes, because “manipulation” has such a negative connotation. You’re working somebody to get what you want without their awareness. It has that negative tone, and the Others don’t see it that way. When I was building the character of Zosia, the thing I had to work on most was standing by a belief so strongly that you couldn’t easily be bent to the other side. I had to create Zosia as someone very protective of that belief. What I’m trying to say is, to Zosia, it’s not manipulation. But if you ask Karolina, of course it’s manipulation.

Let’s talk about the kiss. This struck me as the first blatant act of manipulation. But then again, the Others sending Zosia in the first place could be considered manipulation, because of her resemblance to Raban.

I hear what you’re saying, but Carol is lonely, and Raban is someone she created — someone she might find comforting. It came from her imagination. She always wanted to create this female character, and Zosia is someone she might enjoy being around because it feels familiar after losing her wife. That’s where the Others are coming from. They’re coming from a place of love for Carol, wanting her to feel good, safe, and like she has someone to ease the loneliness.

So, why does Zosia kiss Carol at that moment, when she’s riled up? It could be read as the Others trying to distract her.

On set, we talked about this big shift that happens with Zosia in the way she behaves with Carol. It starts to feel different, like there are more colors there. You start to wonder: is there an evolution happening with the Others? Do they start to take on more individuality? You begin to see more of that — more individuality coming through.

She develops a sense of humor, too.

There are moments, like when we play croquet, where you see she has more banter with Carol. She jokes with her, similar to how Helen jokes with her in Episode 1 — that kind of sarcastic “oh, you poor artist” tone. That’s the first time we see Zosia being sarcastic, saying things like “you suck” and having that kind of rapport that Carol would enjoy.

We were talking about whether Zosia is developing a personality or whether she’s performing for Carol. And then Vince came in and brought up the kiss. We were asking, “Is Zosia actually falling in love with Carol?” And Vince said, “They’re just really nice people, and they just want to make Carol happy.”

So there’s no human being rising to the surface?

No. They see that Carol is struggling. You have to understand, they have the knowledge of the most emotionally intelligent person on Earth. She looks at me a certain way where I go, “I think she wants a kiss. I think this would make her happy.”

Why does Carol tell Zosia to stop saying “we” and start saying “I”?

Well, it gives her individuality.

But it seems almost self-destructive for Carol to convince herself that Zosia is an individual like her.

I think the isolation in Episode 7 is a huge turning point for Carol. If you’re in isolation for 40 days, your mind starts to play tricks on you. You’re not well. And that’s when she calls us back. I think Carol comes to a place of realizing, “I need somebody.” She goes to see Diabaté, and he basically doesn’t want her around. The Old-Schoolers don’t want her around. She doesn’t know anything about Manousos, and she has no idea he is coming. She’s really alone. Carol is pushed to the brink, and when I come back we have these moments together — the spa, playing cards, croquet. She wants to disassociate.

You, Karolina, have a fascinating task as an actor on this show. You have to embody a character who has enough personality to charm Carol, but you also have to not really be a person but a conduit for all human knowledge.

But Zosia is not a robot, right? She is a person that is altered, with all these things within her.

Yes, but she does not have individual thoughts and feelings. Did you receive any guidance on how to straddle that line as an actor?

Walking that fine line constantly — not having too much emotion, being very careful about when emotion comes out — was key. What actually affects the Others? What touches them enough to show emotion? They have empathy, but not the empathy that I, Karolina, would have. So I had to remove those layers. I’ve been thinking about this a lot… I don’t know if I could have played this role if I wasn’t a mother.

What do you mean by that?

What I mean is: when you have a child — at least in my experience — you learn that your heart lives outside your body. You love these beings unconditionally. Your heart is constantly outside of you, you’re constantly thinking about them. I remember being in an acting class where my teacher asked, “Would you throw yourself in front of a bus for someone?” And I thought, “Yeah, I hope I would.” But I didn’t really understand what that meant until I had a child. I would throw myself in front of a bus for my child without thinking. I would do anything to save them — give my lungs away, whatever it is.

That unconditional love, I brought that for Carol. Zosia is like an indulgent mother with Carol, forgiving and loving her through anything and everything. I don’t know if I could have played this part if I wasn’t a mother, because I don’t think I would’ve understood the depth of what that means.